No 12-hour clock available in Colombia

This happens in both spanish and italian languages, so it guess this is not a translation issue.

In English it's fine

That's a problem from the locales package, the /usr/share/i18n/locales/<locale> definition has to describe the format

Looking in the locales in that folder, I think the problem is in this line:

am_pm "";"" (in the locales which don't have 12-hour support).

In the English locale (en_GB), that line looks like this:

am_pm "<U0041><U004D>";"<U0050><U004D>"

Emilio, what would be the correct Spanish abbreviations for AM and PM?

Hi Martin.

In Spanish, it's the same: AM and PM.

Hm, this would affect almost all locales, and since in most countries, AM/PM are not used at all, I feel that it would be wrong to introduce them into the locales.

Bug still present in Gutsy. Is it so hard to simply add the definitions for time format from en_GB to es_*? They are quite ok and would be appropiate for spanish (I use es_MX and they would be perfect).

pitti, wouldn't this just add an option in the clock preferences to change the clock to 12-hour mode? So the default will still be 24-hour, which implies no 'AM/PM' at all.

If that's right, then I think adding this to the locales would be harmless.

Hi, could someone comment on the status of this bug, it is still present on gutsy using es_CR.

As comented on debian bug #466482, according to the "Real Academia Española" spanish locales should use "a.m." and "p.m." for the 12-hour format.

Hi this is fixed in debian unstable for es_CR thank to Aurelien Jarno (Debian Bug # 466482: fixed in glibc 2.7-9) he added a patch to LC_Time to add "a.m." and "p.m." to the 12-hour. This is only for es_CR but someone with control of the source can use it for all es this if that is the case/decision.

cat glibc-2.7/debian/patches/localedata/locale-es_CR.diff
--- glibc-2.7.orig/localedata/locales/es_CR 30 Jul 2006 22:19:44 -0000
+++ glibc-2.7/localedata/locales/es_CR 20 Feb 2008 07:00:28 -0000
@@ -108,8 +108,8 @@ mon "<U0065><U006E><U0065><U0072><U0
 d_t_fmt "<U0025><U0061><U0020><U0025><U0064><U0020><U0025><U0062><U0020><U0025><U0059><U0020><U0025><U0054><U0020><U0025><U005A>"
 d_fmt "<U0025><U0064><U002F><U0025><U006D><U002F><U0025><U0079>"
 t_fmt "<U0025><U0054>"
-am_pm "";""
-t_fmt_ampm ""
+am_pm "<U0041><U002E><U004D><U002E>";"<U0050><U002E><U004D><U002E>"
+t_fmt_ampm "<U0025><U0049><U003A><U0025><U004D><U003A><U0025><U0053><U0020><U0025><U0070>"
 date_fmt "<U0025><U0061><U0020><U0025><U0062><U0020><U0025><U0065>/
 <U0020><U0025><U0048><U003A><U0025><U004D><U003A><U0025><U0053><U0020>/
 <U0025><U005A><U0020><U0025><U0059>"

Can someone take a look into this and hopefully it can be fixed for hardy.

Saludos
        Niko

This bug was fixed in the package langpack-locales - 2.7.9-1

---------------
langpack-locales (2.7.9-1) hardy; urgency=low

  * Synchronize to locales data from glibc 2.7-9.
    - Now includes pl_PL_dateformat.patch, drop patch.
    - Fixes pt_PT monetary decimal point. (LP: #111791)
    - Fixes pl_PL date format. (LP: #184405)
    - Adds AM/PM for es_VE. (LP: #119645)
  * Tag our remaining patches.
  * Add debian/patches/en_IE-am_pm.patch: Add AM/PM definition for en_IE.
    (LP: #199899)
  * Add debian/patches/eo_US.patch: Add eo_US locale, thanks to David
    Mandelberg. (LP: #1918)
  * Add debian/patches/es-am_pm.patch: Add AM/PM defintion for es_ES
    (LP: #51255) and es_MX (LP: #106381)
  * Add debian/patches/es_CR-first-weekday.patch: Fix first weekday and
    workday for es_CR. (LP: #149007)
  * Add debian/patches/en_AU-first-weekday.patch: Fix first weekday and
    workday for en_AU. (LP: #192507)

 -- Martin Pitt <email address hidden> Tue, 11 Mar 2008 13:10:48 +0100

Can someone please provide some third-party evidence that the AM/PM format is actually relevant and used in Spain? Upstream is hesitant to apply these fixes without further evidence. If possible, please answer directly to http://sourceware.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=5910. Thank you!

Martin

I don't know about Spain, but here in Costa Rica (Central America), we use
the AM/PM format as well as the 24 hours format.

Regards

Felix

2008/3/11, Martin Pitt <email address hidden>:
>
> Can someone please provide some third-party evidence that the AM/PM
> format is actually relevant and used in Spain? Upstream is hesitant to
> apply these fixes without further evidence. If possible, please answer
> directly to http://sourceware.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=5910. Thank
> you!
>
>
> --
> No 12-hour clock available in spanish language
> https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/51255
> You received this bug notification because you are a direct subscriber
> of a duplicate bug.
>

Hi Felix,

Felix [2008-03-11 20:19 -0000]:
> I don't know about Spain, but here in Costa Rica (Central America), we use
> the AM/PM format as well as the 24 hours format.

Right, sorry, Copy&Paste error. I actually meant Costa Rica for this
bug. Do you know some URLs, specifications, laws, etc. which confirm
that?

Thanks,

Martin

Martin

I don't know about the legistation etc, but I can confirm as a costarican
that we use the AM/PM format.

For example, I also have installed Microsoft Windows (installed into a
costarican PC), and MS Windows allows me to use the AM/PM format.

Regards

Felix

2008/3/11, Martin Pitt <email address hidden>:
>
> Hi Felix,
>
> Felix [2008-03-11 20:19 -0000]:
>
> > I don't know about Spain, but here in Costa Rica (Central America), we
> use
> > the AM/PM format as well as the 24 hours format.
>
>
> Right, sorry, Copy&Paste error. I actually meant Costa Rica for this
> bug. Do you know some URLs, specifications, laws, etc. which confirm
> that?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Martin
>
>
> --
>
> No 12-hour clock available in spanish language
> https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/51255
> You received this bug notification because you are a direct subscriber
> of a duplicate bug.
>

Hi Felix,

Felix [2008-03-12 0:25 -0000]:
> I don't know about the legistation etc, but I can confirm as a costarican
> that we use the AM/PM format.

Maybe you can find some official documents, government statements,
etc. which use AM/PM and collect some links?

Thank you!

Martin

(Just for avoidance of doubt, I believe you, and I applied the patch,
but upstream wants some hard data.)

Martin

This is the official costarican newspaper link (the government newspaper):

http://www.imprenal.go.cr/

I searched the words "am" "pm" and I found a lot of documentation with the
am/pm format.
These are some examples:

http://historico.gaceta.go.cr/2002/03/CALI_05_03_2002.htm
http://historico.gaceta.go.cr/2002/02/CALI_27_02_2002.htm
http://historico.gaceta.go.cr/2007/06/REMU_21_06_2007.html
http://historico.gaceta.go.cr/2002/05/REMU_03_05_2002.htm
http://historico.gaceta.go.cr/2002/03/CALI_07_03_2002.htm
http://historico.gaceta.go.cr/2003/04/CAFE_30_04_2003.html

Regards

Felix

2008/3/12, Martin Pitt <email address hidden>:
>
> Hi Felix,
>
> Felix [2008-03-12 0:25 -0000]:
>
> > I don't know about the legistation etc, but I can confirm as a
> costarican
> > that we use the AM/PM format.
>
>
> Maybe you can find some official documents, government statements,
> etc. which use AM/PM and collect some links?
>
> Thank you!
>
> Martin
>
> (Just for avoidance of doubt, I believe you, and I applied the patch,
> but upstream wants some hard data.)
>
>
> --
>
> No 12-hour clock available in spanish language
> https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/51255
> You received this bug notification because you are a direct subscriber
> of a duplicate bug.
>

Felix, thank you! Now, for Costa Rica this change is upstream.

Now we need some similar evidence for Spain and Mexico.

I will pull the patch from locales again, see bug 202661. This should instead become an option in the panel (using 12 hour format for the clock).

Correct me if am wrong but having a 12 hour format defined in LC_Time
is needed to display any 12-hour format (ie thats how you select
"a.m." for spanish fom "AM" for english) but the problem in gnome
panel for the Spain locale is how to select the default one.

If there is no definition of 12-hour format we get whatever the
developer thinks is correct for the world. Or have to translate the
time which is better obtained form locales.

IMHO should the Spain locale bugs be corrected is with sensible
defaults, not removing 12-hour format.
Saludos
 Niko

Time ago I tried to gather some data for Mexico but couldn't. As a mexican I can testify both formats are used, but understand the need for hard data.

Anyway, Ubuntu 8.04 now offers the 12/24 hr. choice (24 being the default), but when I select 12 hr. format nothing happens. Time is still presented in 24 hr. format and upon session closing and reopening, selection is again 24 hr.

Now it is a bug, not just a wish...
 Gonzalo.

The bug it is not solved properly.

 I can not set the 12 hour clock in spanish language (Costa Rica).

Please fix this issue.

2008/3/11 Launchpad Bug Tracker <email address hidden>

> This bug was fixed in the package langpack-locales - 2.7.9-1
>
> ---------------
> langpack-locales (2.7.9-1) hardy; urgency=low
>
> * Synchronize to locales data from glibc 2.7-9.
> - Now includes pl_PL_dateformat.patch, drop patch.
> - Fixes pt_PT monetary decimal point. (LP: #111791)
> - Fixes pl_PL date format. (LP: #184405)
> - Adds AM/PM for es_VE. (LP: #119645)
> * Tag our remaining patches.
> * Add debian/patches/en_IE-am_pm.patch: Add AM/PM definition for en_IE.
> (LP: #199899)
> * Add debian/patches/eo_US.patch: Add eo_US locale, thanks to David
> Mandelberg. (LP: #1918)
> * Add debian/patches/es-am_pm.patch: Add AM/PM defintion for es_ES
> (LP: #51255) and es_MX (LP: #106381)
> * Add debian/patches/es_CR-first-weekday.patch: Fix first weekday and
> workday for es_CR. (LP: #149007)
> * Add debian/patches/en_AU-first-weekday.patch: Fix first weekday and
> workday for en_AU. (LP: #192507)
>
> -- Martin Pitt <email address hidden> Tue, 11 Mar 2008 13:10:48
> +0100
>
> ** Changed in: langpack-locales (Ubuntu)
> Status: Fix Committed => Fix Released
>
> --
> No 12-hour clock available in spanish language
> https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/51255
> You received this bug notification because you are a direct subscriber
> of a duplicate bug.
>

On Thu, Aug 21, 2008 at 8:45 AM, Felix <email address hidden> wrote:
> The bug it is not solved properly.
>
> I can not set the 12 hour clock in spanish language (Costa Rica).
>

This one is fixed in debian

--
Saludos
 Niko

It's getting worse.. In Intrepid, the bug is the same.. But, in Jaunty, you can't change clock format, like in Intrepid. (There is no even option, even though this don't work in previous versions)

We, in Colombia, normally don't use 24-hours format. We use 12-hours format..

I don't know if there will be some option to change the time format in Jaunty.

Hi Everyone.

Yes, I can confirm too, that the 12-hours format is the most common in Colombia. Valid ways are: AM/PM, am/pm.

By the way, I reported the missing option in 9.04 (bug 337583) but they said "we know it" and that was it...

Regards.

Turbo.

This bug is not from gnome-panel.. The problem is in locale's files.

HammerHead66, why did you change the status??
This bugs is still there..

El Sun, 22 Mar 2009 15:19:31 -0000
Julián Alarcón <email address hidden> escribió:

> HammerHead66, why did you change the status??

 Let me guess... to win karma blindly changing
bug status all over launchpad ?

> This bugs is still there..

 Indeed it is

>
> ** Changed in: langpack-locales (Ubuntu)
> Status: Invalid => Confirmed
>

See bug 202661, where the introduction of AM/PM was complained about. This was also rejected upstream.

I confirm this bug. Too bad this bug is not going to be fixed, too bad for Ubuntu; this affects the whole distribution. In Puerto Rico we use the AM/PM format. Almost nobody uses the 24 hour format here, New users find this bug annoying. Spanish in Latin America is not exactly the same as Spanish in Spain. Bug 202661 was a complaint made by two Spaniards; for them 24 hour time is a feature, for many of us it is a bug. Would you let people in the US decide how the English language should be spoken in Great Britain? Please reopen this bug.

stop reopening random tasks when it has been stated that's wrong

the issue is a locale definition one not a GNOME bug

Locale definitions are wrong, unfortunately Martin Pitt won't fix this locale definition issue and the problem persist over the years. None of the persons who ignore this problem have this issue in their locales, so don't tell me it is a random task. It is time to take responsibility on this matter!

Here's my locale with a fix.

It's not fair to claim that I ignored this matter! I created a patch, forwarded it to upstream, it got rejected because nobody of the affected people bothered to give some pointers to official documents for evidence. Please see comment 14 for details.

I now updated the bug title for the original request of Spain and Mexico. If you think other countries than those two use 12 hour format, please open a separate bug and provide some evidence, so that we can get this upstream.

Well here is a document from the Colombian congress

http://201.245.176.98/prontus_senado/site/artic/20090424/asocfile/agenda_legislativa_27_al_30_de_abril_de_2009.doc

You can see also the time format used in the congress web page:

http://201.245.176.98/prontus_senado/site/artic/20090427/pags/20090427201522.html

And in a popular web page in Colombia:

http://www.eltiempo.com/index.html

Don't know if you need any other evidence.

Reopening for Columbia then, thanks for the references.

That'd be Colombia BTW, not Columbia.

>Hm, this would affect almost all locales, and since in most countries, AM/PM are not used at all, I feel that it would be >wrong to introduce them into the locales.

@Marin Pitt: As a Colombian I should tell you, the am/ pm format is the most widespread time notation in this great country, military time is only used in the medical / military environments, just for your information...

Hello everybody,
I live in El Salvador, Central America, and I can confirm the most used time format here is the a.m./p.m. hour. as in every country of central america and mexico, since i lived there too.
Here are some links to salvadorian newspapers, web portals and goverment institution, all using the a.m./p.m. format:

http://www.laprensagrafica.com/el-salvador/social/25282-830-p-m.html
http://www.clic.org.sv/agenda.php?funcion=detalle&evento=887
http://www.sc.gob.sv/Publicaciones/Licitaciones/licitaciones_08.htm

i hope this link can be evidence enough.

But i don't understand something: why is there so much problem with enabling at least an option for the user to choose whether if they want to use the a.m./p.m. format or not. I think any OS have this as an option, and it is weird -for not saying ridiculous- we spanish speaking people having to convince and prove you -ubuntu programmers i guess- what we are saying its true!!
I normally enable this option by editing the locale file. The first time i did it was a headache, and shouldn't be this way. My dad's installed ubuntu and he found too that the time format he is used to is not available not even as an option.

It is not linux, and consequently ubuntu, all about choice?
So i don't understand the reluctance to enable the a.m./p.m. format, at least as option if not as default. It is not technically difficult do it -i could-, so i feel it is all about willingness and openness.

 -practically there is zero bad consequence in user experience by enabling this option even in countries that don't use it.
so please! come on guys, don't get that complicated in a decision that should be that simple!

anybody latin people agrees with me?

best regards,

Alejandro,

I hope this will be solve by Karmic, there are many evidence that in Colombia AM/PM is the standard time notation.
I would add this page to the ones already in this report:

http://www.presidencia.gov.co/

Is the page for the government of Colombia.

I also add the patch for Colombia locales.

As an inaccurate Wikipedia entry has more weight than the testimony of a country national here you go:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Date_and_time_notation_by_country#Colombia

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/12-hour_clock

BTW, In Colombia we don't use the AM/PM format as stated in that Wikipedia entry but rather a.m./p.m. as seen in the website of the President of the Republic or am/pm (because it is easier to type on a keyboard).

A valid bug, but it doesn't affect the usability of vanilla Ubuntu 9.10 for the average user, but is a specific issue affecting one locale.

at least we hope you can fix it in later releases, cause it is a annoying bug.

Oh this is sad, I thought it was going to be solved for Karmic, we would have to still doing it manually and searching in google for a solution, uhhmm, ok no way.

But I think reading the hole tread that also effect's the following country's:

Colombia
Puerto Rico
El Salvador
Nicaragua
Costa Rica

Can someone tell us where can we go to solve this problem, I already summit the patch for Colombia and would love to have this solve at least by the team working in locales. Since is not going to be solved in Hundred Paper Cuts were can we report the bug ? Who can help us ?

I keep thinking they can easily add and option for 12 hours clock. It is easy to do, it would benefit a lot of ubuntu users -specially from latin america-, and it would not afect usability of any user since the default clock setting could stay unchanged. We just want and easy way -normal way, not having to write weird code in a hidden file- to set up a 12 hours clock.

 It's just a choice what we are asking, dudes!!

Jorge G, this is a confirmed bug in GLibC, and may be fixed for Karmic. Don't be discouraged that it is not a bug affecting the hundredpapercuts project, that has not bearing on whether it will be fixed for Karmic.

Yo vivo en Colombia. Estoy instalando Ubuntu en cada computador que puedo. Sería más fácil difundir Ubuntu aquí teniendo esas cosas que son normales para la gente. Aquí nos gustaría "am/pm", "AM/PM", "a.m./p.m." o lo que sea, pero en formato de 12 horas.

[I live in Colombia. I am installing Ubuntu on each computer I can. It would be easier to spread Ubuntu here having those things that are normal for the people. Here we would like "am/pm", "AM/PM", "a.m./p.m." or whatever but 12h format. Apologize me for my English.]

I don't know why Spain and Mexico keep getting tied to the same locale issue. Spain uses other conventions than Mexico and other Latin American countries. They were right in filling the bug where states that they use 24 hour clock convention, and as far as I know, Chile and Ecuador use it too. As for the other Spanish speaking countries I am pretty sure they use 12 hour clock convention.

I am from Mexico and can say 24 hour clock is pretty annoying, it is only used in military, political or very formal backgrounds. But for regular use the 12 hour clock is what everyone uses and should have, at least as an option!!!

I couldn't agree more with Alejandro (Comment #42) about everything and how ridiculous it is for someone in the community that takes the time, wants to help and lives and has the knowledge of his own country conventions having to convince and prove Ubuntu programmers and maintainers that what he is saying is true!

Anyway, for the happiness and peace of mind of the maintainers, here it goes:

1. Cinepolis (One of the largest movie theater chains in Mexico):
http://www.cinepolis.com.mx/indexmx.asp

2. Mexican Government Citizens Portal:
http://www.gob.mx/wb/egobierno/temas

3. El Universal (One of the most important Mexican newspapers):
http://www.eluniversal.com.mx/noticias.html

4. Screen shot of certain operaiting system getting it right (By the way, they have the best localization and translations I have seen)

Furthermore, what applies to all Spanish speaking countries, as stated by the Real Academia Española (Official Royal Institution responsible for regulating the Spanish language http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Real_Academia_Espa%C3%B1ola) is the correct abbreviation in lowercase a.m. and p.m. as opposed to English language.

Again, here is the hard proof:

http://buscon.rae.es/dpdI/apendices/apendice2.html
http://esl.proz.com/kudoz/english_to_spanish/general_conversation_greetings_letters/2167232-am_pm_am_pm.html

Mauricio

Puerto Rico uses Atlantic Standard Time:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atlantic_Standard_Time_Zone
http://www.gobierno.pr/GPRPortal/Inicio/PuertoRico/Sobre+Puerto+Rico.htm

Puerto Rico is an US Territory and it doesn't have a local authority on time format matters.
Here are some popular newspapers:

http://www.elnuevodia.com/noticias/
http://www.vocero.com/

For those willing to see this issue resolved in Karmic, just forget about it. There is not an Ubuntu developer facing this issue, that's why this remains unsolved and will remain unsolved. They don't realize that this issue affects the whole distribution, people keep asking why it is so complicated in Ubuntu to use AM PM in Spanish while it is so easy to set it up in other operating systems.

The problem exists and affects distributions of Spanish, attached
the file that fixes this problem, hopefully the update on the
repositories

copy file to /usr/share/i18n/locales/ and rebuild sudo locale-gen

Please, note that the right clock format in Spain is 24-hour, not 12-hour, i.e. in Spain we don't use a.m. / p.m.

So, please, leave the es_ES locale untouched, and fix only es_CO and es_MX locales.

This bug was fixed in the package langpack-locales - 2.11+git20100304-1

---------------
langpack-locales (2.11+git20100304-1) lucid; urgency=low

  * Update to current upstream glibc git head localedata:
    - New locales: my_MM (LP: #175368), ps_AF
    - Fix yes/no strings and first day of week in several locales.
    - es_CO: Define AM/PM. (LP: #51255)
  * debian-first_weekday.diff: Update to drop bits which got accepted
    upstream.
  * debian-tailor-iso14651_t1.diff: Drop hsb_DE part, which does not apply any
    more. (It's just simplification)
  * Drop ubuntu-shs_CA-accents.patch, applied upstream.
  * Add debian-fr_{BE,CA,CH,LU}-first_weekday.diff from Debian, to fix first
    day of week for various French locales. (LP: #497497)
  * debian/local/locale-gen: Fix building of an explicitly specified locale
    for the .utf8 form.
  * debian/control: Bump Standards-Version to 3.8.4 (no changes necessary).
  * Convert patch system to quilt, for better robustness.
  * Convert to debhelper 7 and dh.
  * Install scripts in debian/local/* in debian/install instead of
    debian/rules. dh_fixperms takes care of the permissions for us.
  * Prefix debhelper data files with "locales" package name for consistency.
  * Add debian/README.source.
 -- Martin Pitt <email address hidden> Thu, 04 Mar 2010 15:41:50 +0100

Can you believe this ??? Seem like happiness didn't last; they removed the 12 hours format AGAIN in Lucid 10.04 RC, at only few days from final release. In the last two alphas was fixed but now is gone again. Please do something about it.
?field.comment=Can you believe this ??? Seem like happiness didn't last; they removed the 12 hours format AGAIN in Lucid 10.04 RC, at only few days from final release. In the last two alphas was fixed but now is gone again. Please do something about it.

I don't see this bug again I'm using Ubuntu Lucid Lynx since Alpha 2.

And, to be sure, today I installed Ubuntu 10.04 Lucid Lynx on VirtualBox, and time format for Colombia is OK, no problem.

Maybe, there is one aesthetic, the time format in the Language selector (gnome-language-selector) has the wrong time format for Colombia. (Screenshot added)

Come on, two years already. I'm from El Salvador (ES-sv) and we use AM PM without problems.

In an Ubuntu 10.04 clean install selecting "Español; Castellano (México)" in gnome-language-selector there is no 12 hour option in the clock.

Evidence of usage of AM/PM in mexican government:
http://www.presidencia.gob.mx/
http://multimedia.calderon.presidencia.gob.mx/gm_widget_mexico_aldia_alt.php

Come on, this is a three years old bug...

This bug has been solve and it should not be opened again, the time format for Colombia is ok now so if you are having problems for Mexico and Salvador please open a new bug report with the affected country.

The problem has appeared again in Ubuntu 11.04.

I can not set the 12 hour clock in spanish language (Costa Rica)

im from saudi arabia we allso have the same problem

help

This is no longer an issue. In Unity 12hr or 24 hr clock is just a click away.