French Default Canadian Keyboard 9.10

Offical Language Statistics can be found here

http://www12.statcan.ca/English/census01/products/highlight/LanguageComposition/Page.cfm?Lang=E&Geo=PR&View=1b&Table=1a&StartRec=1&Sort=2&B1=Counts&B2=Both

Assigning the bug to French Canadian translators to provide more input on that.

WHERE IS THE BUG?

"The Default Keyboard layout for Canada is French in ubuntu server 9.10.
Most Canadians don't speak French, Most Canadians who do speak French can also speak English or at least use an English keyboard. The default keyboard layout for Canada when no language is specified should be English. This is a serious problem for anybody trying to install ubuntu server in Canada."

I don't see a bug with that, I think you're just talking about POLITICS, nothing to do with COMPUTING...

If you don't like french it's not the problem of the french canadians or quebecers.

I see your comment as INAPROPRIATE....

Can you expose the real BUG?

Your're just insulting all the french people in thins contry...
I can tell the same, MOST CANADIAN WHO DO SPEAK ENGLISH SHOULD ALSO speak FRENCH... or at least use a FRENCH CANADIAN keyboard. The default keyboard layout for CANADA when no language is specified should be FRENCH CANADIAN.

Here we have a problem....

the REAL PROBLEM should be the lack in the configuration about asking which KEYBOARD LAYOUT you wanna use.

Don't mix politics with that!

Le bogue est une question POLITIQUE, rien à voir avec l'informatique, ne faites pas la gaffe de soulever un débat politique.

J'ai déjà à suivre vos écrits en anglais même si c'est pas ma langue et je trouve désolant que par dépit ça doit toujours se passer en anglais car vous êtes des anglophones...

le choix du type de clavier doit être obligatoire afin de ne pas avoir ce genre de commentaire ridicule.

For the english people who don't know french, just LEARN IT! as we did with english.

have a nice day... passez une belle journée!

Hi I use Ubuntu 10.04 right now, but when I was using 9.10 I had no bug for
that at all. Can you tell me more about the bug.

Thank you

Jackie Gravel

2010/8/4 Launchpad Bug Tracker <email address hidden>

> You have been assigned a bug task for a public bug by David Planella (dpm):
>
> The Default Keyboard layout for Canada is French in ubuntu server 9.10.
> Most Canadians don't speak French, Most Canadians who do speak French can
> also speak English or at least use an English keyboard. The default keyboard
> layout for Canada when no language is specified should be English. This is a
> serious problem for anybody trying to install ubuntu server in Canada.
>
> -Mike Brunt-
>
> ** Affects: ubuntu-translations
> Importance: Low
> Assignee: Ubuntu French Canadian Translators (ubuntu-l10n-fr-ca)
> Status: Triaged
>
> ** Affects: ubiquity (Ubuntu)
> Importance: Undecided
> Status: New
>
> --
> French Default Canadian Keyboard 9.10
> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/bugs/548787
> You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu
> French Canadian Translators, which is a bug assignee.
>

El dc 04 de 08 de 2010 a les 11:14 +0000, en/na Steve Nadeau va
escriure:
> WHERE IS THE BUG?
>
> "The Default Keyboard layout for Canada is French in ubuntu server 9.10.
> Most Canadians don't speak French, Most Canadians who do speak French can also speak English or at least use an English keyboard. The default keyboard layout for Canada when no language is specified should be English. This is a serious problem for anybody trying to install ubuntu server in Canada."
>
> I don't see a bug with that, I think you're just talking about POLITICS,
> nothing to do with COMPUTING...
>
> If you don't like french it's not the problem of the french canadians or
> quebecers.
>
>
> I see your comment as INAPROPRIATE....
>
> Can you expose the real BUG?
>
> Your're just insulting all the french people in thins contry...
> I can tell the same, MOST CANADIAN WHO DO SPEAK ENGLISH SHOULD ALSO speak FRENCH... or at least use a FRENCH CANADIAN keyboard. The default keyboard layout for CANADA when no language is specified should be FRENCH CANADIAN.
>
> Here we have a problem....
>
> the REAL PROBLEM should be the lack in the configuration about asking
> which KEYBOARD LAYOUT you wanna use.
>
> Don't mix politics with that!
>
>
>
> Le bogue est une question POLITIQUE, rien à voir avec l'informatique, ne faites pas la gaffe de soulever un débat politique.
>
> J'ai déjà à suivre vos écrits en anglais même si c'est pas ma langue et
> je trouve désolant que par dépit ça doit toujours se passer en anglais
> car vous êtes des anglophones...
>
> le choix du type de clavier doit être obligatoire afin de ne pas avoir
> ce genre de commentaire ridicule.
>
> For the english people who don't know french, just LEARN IT! as we did
> with english.
>
> have a nice day... passez une belle journée!
>

Steve,

I'd like to ask you to keep the tone down, as it had been before your
comment. We're just trying to determine which is the best default
keyboard option for Canada, nothing else.

If you think the default should stay as French, that's absolutely fine,
but it be more useful to provide some real data as feedback, and keep
the discussion for forums or more appropriate mediums than a bug
tracker.

Thanks.

Regards,
David.

--
David Planella
Ubuntu Translations Coordinator
www.ubuntu.com / www.davidplanella.wordpress.com
www.identi.ca/dplanella / www.twitter.com/dplanella

Steve,
1. The original reporter didn't mean to harm with the statement you are commenting, he is just stating a fact: "According to the 2006 census, English and French are the preferred language (...) of 67.1% and 21.5% of Canadians, respectively", says http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spoken_languages_of_Canada . Nothing to do with "liking" french or not, he means the default should be focused at the 67%, especially given the 21% also speak English
2. All caps screaming is useless, disrespectful, and opposed to the Code of Conduct.
3. No need to translate this to French, the official language here in LP is English and there is no doubt about that
Good day everybody.

David... I've suggested to force the choice of the keyboard layout at the installation point, then for that there is no bug, just something to change in the installation process...

have a nice day!

Ronan...
Your talking about a cencus in an ENGLISH site, do the same in a FREN site you will have 80% in favor of the other, just cause not all french people go to the english site, the same for the english people, they don't go to french site...

then, my suggestion is to force the choice of the keyboard layout at the installation.

the caps was just to emphase on it no more... just to adjust the subject of the bug...

Good day!

I would also vote for a choice of keyboard if Canada is the selected country. Imposing a layout (one way or another) will only lead to politics... Not what we want here...

Steve;
Je travailles dans un milieu anglophone... Et ça m'épate à chaque fois de voir que les francophone utilise le layout anglais... J'ai beau leurs expliquer qu'ils peuvent écrire "en anglais" avec un clavier français (juste à pas mettre d'accents...), leur argument est que pour la programmation, c'est plus simple avec le layout anglais...
Mais je suis pro-choix.
Et je pense que d'offrir le choix (au lieu d'en imposer un) est la meilleur solution...

Being a French-speaking Québécois, I understand that language choice in Canada can be a touchy subject, but I have to agree that the default language for Canada should be English, simply because English is the majority language in the country. When Ronan speaks of a census, he doesn't talk about a survey on an English site, he's talking about the Canadian census that is done every 5 years by Statistics Canada, and which comprises the answers of all participating citizens, from coast to coast.

Now, to circumvent these frustrations, and to give this issue a positive outcome, I would suggest that Québec be recognized as a nation within the keyboard layout settings. Québec has already been recognized as a nation within a nation by the federal government (on November 22, 2006), and as such could be entitled to its own keyboard layout.

I don't believe in no-win scenarios. I think the solution I am proposing is elegant, relatively easy to implement, and satisfactory to all parties involved.

Thanks for the clarification, Daniel! Yes these statistics seem to be official, so it could be a good starting point to (like David pertinently reminded) gather some data and act accordingly.

Default choice aside, there could be other ways to investigate (don't know if ubiquity allows this)
1. there could be English *and* French at the top of the keyboard layout dropdown when Canada is selected
2. or maybe the layout could be determined according to the position/city clicked on the map? (clicking near Vancouver would preselect English, clicking on Montréal would preselect French)

Mike, there is no such thing as an "English" Canadian keyboard layout. There is two variants of Canadian keyboards: multilingual, and French-Canadian. The multilingual variant as the "é" left of the right Shift, and the question mark is Shift-6 (just like the French-Canadian variant, BTW). If you are indisposed by the presence of accent on your keyboard, defaulting to the Canadian multilingual layout is not what you want.

It is my understanding that most computers sold in Canada are equipped with a US keyboard (ie, no accent anywhere). Defaulting to Canada multilingual or French for these computer is, indeed, wrong as the keys would not match.

Mike, if you want to advocate that the default keyboard layout in Canada should be US, be my guest. Otherwise, users of US keyboards will have to explicitly chose the US layout.

I just checked in Windows, and it seems like it default to the US keyboard layout when you chose "English (Canada)" as your default input language. The system I checked on was installed as "English (US)", so I am not entirely sure whether it is the default behavior at install time. Can someone with a Windows or Mac computer configured for the "English (Canada)" locale check which keyboard layout is configured by default?

Hi,

Using country name instead of language name is a bad habit, in my point of
view.

Canada multilingue work well for me + USA keyboard layout for programming

jav

On Wed, Aug 4, 2010 at 9:19 AM, Etienne Goyer
<email address hidden>wrote:

> I just checked in Windows, and it seems like it default to the US
> keyboard layout when you chose "English (Canada)" as your default input
> language. The system I checked on was installed as "English (US)", so I
> am not entirely sure whether it is the default behavior at install time.
> Can someone with a Windows or Mac computer configured for the "English
> (Canada)" locale check which keyboard layout is configured by default?
>
> --
> French Default Canadian Keyboard 9.10
> https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/548787
> You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu
> French Canadian Translators, which is a bug assignee.
>
> Status in Ubuntu Translations (internationalization and localization):
> Triaged
> Status in “ubiquity” package in Ubuntu: New
>
> Bug description:
> The Default Keyboard layout for Canada is French in ubuntu server 9.10.
> Most Canadians don't speak French, Most Canadians who do speak French can
> also speak English or at least use an English keyboard. The default keyboard
> layout for Canada when no language is specified should be English. This is a
> serious problem for anybody trying to install ubuntu server in Canada.
>
> -Mike Brunt-
>
>
>

I am a francophone Québécois too. I found the initial messages here a
bit hilarious. To give a little bit of perspective, I am a Dvorak
typist, so I use the Canadian French Dvorak keyboard layout (which is
available in GNOME, but not in server versions, as far as I know). You
don't see me shouting from the rooftops.

It's not as easy as it seems. Don't think there are only two keyboard
layouts out there. Besides, what about the vast amount of foreign-born
Canadians? A canadian using a russian keyboard layout is not
impossible, for example. The only way to not displease and not get into
politics is to offer the choice.

Just add the damn option to set the keyboard layout and be done with it :)

Hello

I suspected this may be a touchy subject. Sorry if i have offended anybody. My only point was that Ubuntu is supposed to be about being easy to use and this is the second time I have done an install of Ubuntu picking all the Canadian defaults only to find many of the keys on my keyboard are not behaving as they normally do. I am not a language keyboard expert but I know it was more then a few keys in different places. This is the keybord that came up by default It is quite different. I have linked an image below.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/41/KB_Canadian_Multilingual_Standard.svg/800px-KB_Canadian_Multilingual_Standard.svg.png

Most computers in Canada have us keyboards. Although I admit multilingual keyboards are becoming easier to get. here in Nova Scotia I have seen a few laptops in retail stores labeled with us and multilingual keys.

Anyway I think the official Canadian stats show a good cause for either a us keyboard default with a clear way to select a multilingual option, or a forced keyboard selection with no default.

I should also mention that I have only had this happen with the command line installer. I recently did some checking and us keyboards are the default in the gui installer.

Windows and Mac both default to US keyboards for Canada.

I'm not sure I understand what this bug is about. Using the desktop installer, selecting a canadian timezone will always default to a US keyboard. If a "Canadian multilingual" keyboard is needed, it must be manually selected at the keyboard layout screen. This makes sense to me, as most Canadians want a US keyboard layout.

@captainMike: I suspect when you say you "pick all the Canadian defaults", you are also selecting inadvertently the "Canadian" keyboard, which isn't what you want. Simply leave the default choice on the keyboard layout screen, which is US, and you'll get what you want.

Default Keyboard Layouts on Servers is not a bug but can be really annoying
for system administrators.

Traditionally the default keyboard layout for Servers (We are talking about
servers right?) expected by Systems Administrators from all over the world
is English US 101. Not French, not Canadian Multingual and not Finnish or
any of the other languages available.

This makes sense for historical compatibility reasons (are all those extra
keyboards, Finnish keyboards or are they (IBM) US 101 compatible
keyboards?).

Any System Administrator can easily create a custom installer to change this
if they have a compelling reason to do so but most choose not to for the
reasons stated above.

For Desktops I uses can choose whatever they like

Cheers,

Chris

On Wed, Aug 4, 2010 at 5:57 AM, Launchpad Bug Tracker <
<email address hidden>> wrote:

> You have been assigned a bug task for a public bug by David Planella (dpm):
>
> The Default Keyboard layout for Canada is French in ubuntu server 9.10.
> Most Canadians don't speak French, Most Canadians who do speak French can
> also speak English or at least use an English keyboard. The default keyboard
> layout for Canada when no language is specified should be English. This is a
> serious problem for anybody trying to install ubuntu server in Canada.
>
> -Mike Brunt-
>
> ** Affects: ubuntu-translations
> Importance: Low
> Assignee: Ubuntu French Canadian Translators (ubuntu-l10n-fr-ca)
> Status: Triaged
>
> ** Affects: ubiquity (Ubuntu)
> Importance: Undecided
> Status: New
>
> --
> French Default Canadian Keyboard 9.10
> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/bugs/548787
> You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu
> French Canadian Translators, which is a bug assignee.
>

--
Christopher Steel

Voice of Access

So I guess that we all agree that this is not a bug...

Most Commands are in English.
We're talking about a Server OS.
English keyboard layout should be the default (not that it would make a big difference, anyway, most useful keys are at the same place).

And before raising the whole "political" crap, I'm French (from France) living in Montreal, so I'm all for bilingualism and all that...but even in France, on a server OS, it is definitely faster and more practical to use an English keyboard layout, so it would make sense having it default.

Desktop is a whole another story, of course...

So "bug", sure, but not priority IMHO...

Not a bug...Agreed.

Jeff Nelson
613-447-5484

On Thu, Aug 5, 2010 at 6:47 PM, Alexandre Jodoin
<email address hidden>wrote:

> So I guess that we all agree that this is not a bug...
>
> --
> French Default Canadian Keyboard 9.10
> https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/548787
> You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu
> French Canadian Translators, which is a bug assignee.
>
> Status in Ubuntu Translations (internationalization and localization):
> Triaged
> Status in “ubiquity” package in Ubuntu: New
>
> Bug description:
> The Default Keyboard layout for Canada is French in ubuntu server 9.10.
> Most Canadians don't speak French, Most Canadians who do speak French can
> also speak English or at least use an English keyboard. The default keyboard
> layout for Canada when no language is specified should be English. This is a
> serious problem for anybody trying to install ubuntu server in Canada.
>
> -Mike Brunt-
>
>
>

http://doctr7nline-prduct.co.cc/i4f7j8

Is this the french canadians translation team? So why don't ask to english team to fix this bug? It affect English speaking people from Canada... So why ask to french translation team to fix a english speaking problem?

It is'nt a bug right now... It's a lack of english speaking user's involvment...

Merci,

Also... I vote for a choice at the installation.

Is this still a problem with current releases?

I've installed a bunch of servers lately, and have selected "Canada" each time, but it always defaulted to a US Keyboard, as it should.

Can someone give detailed steps on how to reproduce this bug with a current release of Ubuntu?

Thanks.