[needs-packaging] Cinelerra - confusion between HV and CV versions video editor, and Lumiera

On Sat, Oct 01, 2005 at 03:05:08PM +0200, Riccardo Setti wrote:
> Package: wnpp
> Severity: wishlist
> Owner: Riccardo Setti <email address hidden>
>
>
> * Package name : cinelerra-cvs
> Version : 2.0-cvs
> Upstream Author :
> * URL : http://www.example.org/
> * License : GPL
> Description : non-linear video editor and compositor for Linux.
>
> Cinelerra, the first Linux based real-time editing and special effects
> system is a revolutionary Open Source HD media editing system.

You know there has been an RFP on cinelerra itself for a very
long time, almost 5 years. See bugs.debian.org/78209, 156614,
239570.

Why do you want to have a CVS version from the package if there
even isn't a normal version of it in the archive?

Kurt

* Kurt Roeckx <email address hidden> [2005-10-01 15:31:54 +0200]:

> You know there has been an RFP on cinelerra itself for a very
> long time, almost 5 years. See bugs.debian.org/78209, 156614,
> 239570.
>
> Why do you want to have a CVS version from the package if there
> even isn't a normal version of it in the archive?

The information at http://cvs.cinelerra.org/about.html seems to indicate
that the two codebases are at least somewhat separate, so I don't think
the distinction is quite as clear-cut as you make out.
--
mithrandi, i Ainil en-Balandor, a faer Ambar

Kurt Roeckx wrote:

>You know there has been an RFP on cinelerra itself for a very
>long time, almost 5 years. See bugs.debian.org/78209, 156614,
>239570.
>
>Why do you want to have a CVS version from the package if there
>even isn't a normal version of it in the archive?
>
>

cinelerra is forked. To repeat what Riccardo has written:

"This is a branched version of Cinelerra sometimes called
Cinelerra-CVS
.
Please visit cvs.cinelerra.org for more information regarding
this duality."

But your reaction proves that the name "cinelerra-cvs" is misleading.

Cheers,
Andreas

Hi,

please respect the reply-to: and subscribe to the bugs if you're interested in
solving them... Thanks.

On Saturday 01 October 2005 15:05, Riccardo Setti wrote:
> Package: wnpp
> Severity: wishlist
> Owner: Riccardo Setti <email address hidden>
>
>
> * Package name : cinelerra-cvs
> Version : 2.0-cvs
> Upstream Author :

Besides the original upstream (Heroine Virtual Ltd <email address hidden>)
the people at http://cvs.cinelerra.org/devcorner/cvswrite.html (or the URL
itself) should be mentioned.

> * URL : http://www.example.org/

This should be changed to http://cvs.cinelerra.org

> This is a branched version of Cinelerra sometimes called
> Cinelerra-CVS

I dont think it's useful (at the moment) to have both versions of cinelerra in
Debian. So #78209, #156614 and #239570 could be closed.

OTOH, it's a seperatly maintained fork, so maybe not. What do you think ?

BTW, IMHO it would really be a good idea to change that name. Maintainers of
cinelerra-cvs, what do you think ? Cinelerra has also been renamed in the
past :-)

On Saturday 01 October 2005 15:44, Sam Hocevar wrote:
> Be careful, more than 1000 Cinelerra source files do not have a
> proper license, a dozen are copyrighted by the MPEG group, another dozen
> are under the old ugly OpenDivX license, and you have many additional
> strange licensing terms in some files (such as free to copy and modify,
> but not to redistribute).

Sam gave me a list with his investigation of the cinelerra-cvs, I have
attached it. What strikes me most, is the lack of licences for 15% of the
whole sourcecode. (1013 out of 6631 (Sam's list from 2004-04-25 / my
cvs-checkout from monday).

Since this investigation is a year old, I would like to ask upstream and the
maintainers of the fork to comment on the current situation. Have those
issues been addressed ? (Yes, i'm too lazy to check this myself now. Thats why
I'm asking the people who should know whether they did that work ;)

> Are you in touch with Holger Levsen <email address hidden>? We
> talked about Cinelerra at the QA miniconf and I sent him a list of
> problematic source files I had gathered. He is in touch with other
> people interested in packaging Cinelerra.

I've not really got into touch with the cinelerra-cvs community yet, "only"
with Herman Robak (who is deeply involved in cinelerra-cvs)... With this
mail I try to address the issues and connect the people who could have an
interest in solving them.

http://www.heroinewarrior.com/support.php3 ("real" upstream) mentions the fork
on their support/harrassment page, so I tend to think, they're somewhat happy
about it...

Another big problem: Currently the build requirements for the debian packages
provided from cinelerra-cvs (see
http://cvs.cinelerra.org/getting_cinelerra.html or
http://developer.skolelinux.no/cgi-bin/viewcvs.cgi/*checkout*/external/cinelerra/hvirtual/README.BUILD?rev=HEAD&content-type=text/plain
) include a number of packages which are not in Debian but distributed via
ftp://ftp.nerim.net/debian-marillat/ - I hope that it will be possible to
create a cinelerra version, which works with free codecs from Debi...

Il giorno mer, 05/10/2005 alle 20.39 +0200, Holger Levsen ha scritto:
hello,
> Hi,
> Besides the original upstream (Heroine Virtual Ltd <email address hidden>)
> the people at http://cvs.cinelerra.org/devcorner/cvswrite.html (or the URL
> itself) should be mentioned.

i don't know :) probably you are in right. i fogot it. sorry.

> > * URL : http://www.example.org/
>
> This should be changed to http://cvs.cinelerra.org

same.

> > This is a branched version of Cinelerra sometimes called
> > Cinelerra-CVS
>
> I dont think it's useful (at the moment) to have both versions of cinelerra in
> Debian. So #78209, #156614 and #239570 could be closed.

alredy close (see damog's mail in d-d-a).

> OTOH, it's a seperatly maintained fork, so maybe not. What do you think ?
>
> BTW, IMHO it would really be a good idea to change that name. Maintainers of
> cinelerra-cvs, what do you think ? Cinelerra has also been renamed in the
> past :-)

afaik we will discuss it in the next weeks, months, years :)

> On Saturday 01 October 2005 15:44, Sam Hocevar wrote:
> > Be careful, more than 1000 Cinelerra source files do not have a
> > proper license, a dozen are copyrighted by the MPEG group, another dozen
> > are under the old ugly OpenDivX license, and you have many additional
> > strange licensing terms in some files (such as free to copy and modify,
> > but not to redistribute).
>
> Sam gave me a list with his investigation of the cinelerra-cvs, I have
> attached it. What strikes me most, is the lack of licences for 15% of the
> whole sourcecode. (1013 out of 6631 (Sam's list from 2004-04-25 / my
> cvs-checkout from monday).
> Since this investigation is a year old, I would like to ask upstream and the
> maintainers of the fork to comment on the current situation. Have those
> issues been addressed ? (Yes, i'm too lazy to check this myself now. Thats why
> I'm asking the people who should know whether they did that work ;)

we start talking about this issue last week.

> Another big problem: Currently the build requirements for the debian packages
> provided from cinelerra-cvs (see
> http://cvs.cinelerra.org/getting_cinelerra.html or
> http://developer.skolelinux.no/cgi-bin/viewcvs.cgi/*checkout*/external/cinelerra/hvirtual/README.BUILD?rev=HEAD&content-type=text/plain
> ) include a number of packages which are not in Debian but distributed via
> ftp://ftp.nerim.net/debian-marillat/ - I hope that it will be possible to
> create a cinelerra version, which works with free codecs from Debian proper
> only, and still can use additional codecs from marillat.

afaik it could be possible, we are working on it.

a the moment cinelerra-cvs supports the encode to ogg/theora.

> I know that this most probably will be a long journey or even impossible - but
> if this _is_ impossible I would like to spread the word, so there is an
> incentive to work on a truly free tool for editing videos.

:)

> regards,
> Holger (subscribed to those bugs and cinelerra-cvs..)
--
ciao giskard

non ho peli sulla lingua. e se ce li ho... non sono miei.

Hi,

wow, almost exactly one year :-/

On Wednesday 05 October 2005 21:59, giskard wrote:
...

I was reminded of this issue when I saw that #156614 was closed (an RFP for
cinelerra).

A while ago cinelerra(-cvs) 2.1 has been released and I would like to know if
the issues described in this bug (see
http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=331072) and specifically the
licence-issues listed in
http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi/cinelerra-cvs-sources.txt?bug=331072;msg=25;att=1
have been fixed.

regards,
 Holger

On Wed, 04 Oct 2006 12:29:38 +0200, Holger Levsen <email address hidden>
wrote:

> A while ago cinelerra(-cvs) 2.1 has been released and I would like to
> know if the issues described in this bug (see
> http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=331072) and
> specifically the
> licence-issues listed in
> http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi/cinelerra-cvs-sources.txt?bug=331072;msg=25;att=1
> have been fixed.

  Hardly. The strongest itch for the users and coders on the <cinelerra at
skolelinux>
mailing list is getting desired features and losing annoying bugs. After
that comes
better usability and documentation. Licensing issues are "if we ever get
around to it"
stuff. :-(

  Suggested action: If you, Holger, could infer what the correct license
_should_ be
for each file, based on other files in the same package or library and
sound
judgement, you could add those licences as a patch. The patch should be
made against
the upstream (the sources from heroines.sourceforge.net) and sent to the
upstream
author <email address hidden>, with a brief comment.

  Then cross fingers and wait... If upstream accepts the licence patch,
rejoice, we
can have Cinelerra adopted by license-concious distros like Debian. If
not... well,
let's not decide what to do in that case yet.

  Merging the license patch with Cinelerra-CV should not cause many
conflicts,
so I am sure that our great Subversion mongers would be happy to help with
that. :-)

--
Herman Robak

Hello,

This is an automatic mail sent to close the ITP you have reported or
are involved with.

Your ITP wnpp bug is being closed because of the following reasons:
- It is, as of today, older than 365 days.
- It hasn't had any activity recently.

As this is an automatic procedure, it could of course have something
wrong and probably it would be closing some bugs that are not
intended by owners and submitters (like you) to be closed, for
example if the ITP is still of your interest, or there has been
some kind of activity around it. In that case, please reopen the
bug, do it, DO IT NOW! (I don't want to be blamed because of
mass closing and not let people know that they can easily reopen
their bugs ;-).

To re-open it, you simply have to mail <email address hidden>
with a body text like this:

 reopen 331072
 stop

Further comments on the work done in the bug sent to
<email address hidden> would be truly welcomed.
Anyway, if you have any kind of problems when dealing with
the BTS, feel free to contact me and I'd be more than happy to help
you on this: <email address hidden>.

A similar process is being applied to other kind of wnpp bugs.

Thanks for your cooperation,

 -- David Moreno Garza <email address hidden>.

reopen 331072
stop

Hello,

This is an automatic mail sent to close the ITP you have reported or
are involved with.

Your ITP wnpp bug is being closed because of the following reasons:
- It is, as of today, older than 365 days.
- It hasn't had any activity recently.

As this is an automatic procedure, it could of course have something
wrong and probably it would be closing some bugs that are not
intended by owners and submitters (like you) to be closed, for
example if the ITP is still of your interest, or there has been
some kind of activity around it. In that case, please reopen the
bug, do it, DO IT NOW! (I don't want to be blamed because of
mass closing and not let people know that they can easily reopen
their bugs ;-).

To re-open it, you simply have to mail <email address hidden>
with a body text like this:

 reopen 331072
 stop

Further comments on the work done in the bug sent to
<email address hidden> would be truly welcomed.
Anyway, if you have any kind of problems when dealing with
the BTS, feel free to contact me and I'd be more than happy to help
you on this: <email address hidden>.

A similar process is being applied to other kind of wnpp bugs.

Thanks for your cooperation,

 -- David Moreno Garza <email address hidden>.

reopen 331072
stop

retitle 331072 ITP: cinelerra-cv -- non-linear video editor and compositor for Linux
owner 331072 Ludovic RESLINGER <email address hidden>
thanks

I am adopting this package, because I am often using it, and
I think it will be good to add it in Debian.
Regards,
--
     .---. Ludovic RESLINGER
    / \
    \.@-@./ Free Software Developer
    /`\_/`\ Musician
   // )X( \\
  | \ : )|_ _,'| .''`.
 /`\_`> <_/ \ @======TTT=====::_ | : :' :
 \__/'---'\__/ ((_<=HHH___)) `.| `. `'`
                  `---UUU---'=> `-

Hi Ludovic,

On Thursday 04 December 2008 23:55, Ludovic RESLINGER wrote:
> I am adopting this package, because I am often using it, and
> I think it will be good to add it in Debian.

Cheers!

Which version control system to you plan to use for the packaging?

Have you looked into the packaging problems which are the reasons why
cinelerra hasnt made it into Debian so far?

regards,
 Holger

Holger Levsen a écrit :
> Cheers!
>
> Which version control system to you plan to use for the packaging?
>
> Have you looked into the packaging problems which are the reasons why
> cinelerra hasnt made it into Debian so far?
>
>
> regards,
> Holger
>

Hello Holger,

I think to use the Cinelerra-CV version for packaging because it seems
to be a more stable version with a community of developers who works
to correct some bugs on Herroinewarrior version. I think it would be
the best choise for debian package.

Yes, I looked into the packaging problems. I'm going to try a solution
for this problem of licences.

Regards,
--
     .---. Ludovic RESLINGER
    / \
    \.@-@./ Free Software Developer
    /`\_/`\ Musician
   // )X( \\
  | \ : )|_ _,'| .''`.
 /`\_`> <_/ \ @======TTT=====::_ | : :' :
 \__/'---'\__/ ((_<=HHH___)) `.| `. `'`
                  `---UUU---'=> `-

Hi Ludovic,

On Friday 05 December 2008 17:51, Ludovic RESLINGER wrote:
> I think to use the Cinelerra-CV version for packaging because it seems
> to be a more stable version with a community of developers who works
> to correct some bugs on Herroinewarrior version. I think it would be
> the best choise for debian package.

Yup, sure. I ment, which version control system, like svn or git are you
planning to use and where do you plan to host it. alioth?

> Yes, I looked into the packaging problems. I'm going to try a solution
> for this problem of licences.

Great!

If you need help, feel free to ping me via debian-mentors@l.d.o ;) (I prefer
the list so you dont have to rely on _me_.) I'd also be willing to sponsor
your package once it's ready :)

regards,
 Holger

Ludovic RESLINGER <email address hidden> writes:

[...]

> I think to use the Cinelerra-CV version for packaging because it seems
> to be a more stable version with a community of developers who works
> to correct some bugs on Herroinewarrior version. I think it would be
> the best choise for debian package.
>
> Yes, I looked into the packaging problems. I'm going to try a solution
> for this problem of licences.

As usual in Debian a program like Cinelerra-CV without mpeg2, mp3, aac
or x264 encoding is useless.

Christian

>As usual in Debian a program like Cinelerra-CV without mpeg2, mp3, aac
> or x264 encoding is useless.

Well I managed to make a couple of videos
using theora+vorbis as input and outpout and it works ..

look yourself if it matters :

http://en.theorasea.org/search.php?search=rzr

If the problem remains in fonts licencing , this sounds not like a big issue

Finally thanks to Christian for his work on d-m.org

Regards

--
  # Philippe Coval mailto:rzr[a]users.sf.net pgp:0x467094BC #
  # http://rzr.online.fr/contribs.htm xmpp:rzr[a]jabber.fr irc:RzR #

Philippe Coval <email address hidden> writes:

>>As usual in Debian a program like Cinelerra-CV without mpeg2, mp3, aac
>> or x264 encoding is useless.
>
> Well I managed to make a couple of videos
> using theora+vorbis as input and outpout and it works ..

And you are playing this file where ? Most DVD player are unable to
read this file. Completely useless.

Christian

Hi,

On Sonntag, 15. Februar 2009, Christian Marillat wrote:
> And you are playing this file where ? Most DVD player are unable to
> read this file. Completely useless.

http://meetings-archive.debian.net/pub/debian-meetings/ contains 393 GB of
videos, most of it in ogg theora. And AFAIK many people think those videos
are very useful.

:-)

regards,
 Holger

Holger Levsen <email address hidden> writes:

> Hi,
>
> On Sonntag, 15. Februar 2009, Christian Marillat wrote:
>> And you are playing this file where ? Most DVD player are unable to
>> read this file. Completely useless.
>
> http://meetings-archive.debian.net/pub/debian-meetings/ contains 393 GB of
> videos, most of it in ogg theora. And AFAIK many people think those videos
> are very useful.

Video for geeks ?

Christian

Hi,

On Donnerstag, 19. Februar 2009, Christian Marillat wrote:
> > http://meetings-archive.debian.net/pub/debian-meetings/ contains 393 GB
> > of videos, most of it in ogg theora. And AFAIK many people think those
> > videos are very useful.
> Video for geeks ?

Icweasel / Firefox 3.1 is supposed to have Ogg and Theora & Vorbis codecs on
all platforms.

regards,
 Holger

On Freitag, 20. Februar 2009, Holger Levsen wrote:
> Icweasel / Firefox 3.1 is supposed to have Ogg and Theora & Vorbis codecs
> on all platforms.

Oh, and this cool new linux thingy supports ogg theora since ages :)

Hi Christian,

as you (hopefully!) I appreciate your efforts for debian-multimedia.o very
much, but why do you riculouse (speling?) this effort? Supporting free codecs
with free software is very worthwhile!

regards,
 Holger

Holger Levsen <email address hidden> writes:

> Hi Christian,

Hi,

> as you (hopefully!) I appreciate your efforts for debian-multimedia.o very
> much, but why do you riculouse (speling?) this effort? Supporting free codecs
> with free software is very worthwhile!

I've never said that. I'm just saying that theroa video are not
playable on all devices. Devices for me is not a computer but a DVD
player. Without MPEG2, Xvid, Divx encoding cinelerra is useless.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DVD_player

Christian