top smtp server in list is always used regardless of default

Sounds like an interesting idea. We'll take a look in the next release at doing
something like this.

Promoting to NEW, adding "[RFE]" to summary.

The subject says:
"[RFE] Can't define multiple SMTP servers and quickly switch between them"
but isn't this bug about:
"Move on to next SMTP server if first one fails" ?

adding john

*** Bug 74516 has been marked as a duplicate of this bug. ***

It would be nice to manually select the smtp server when sending a mail, or be
able to define a "filter" so that mail going to mail servers using blacklist can
use my isp mail server and the rest use my local smtp server (that is
blacklisted, because I use a dial up internet connection).

Take into account that when sending to servers that use blacklist, the mail is
sent without any problem, but returned afterwards. I would like to specify a
different smtp server for this servers/address.

*** Bug 100267 has been marked as a duplicate of this bug. ***

*** Bug 122788 has been marked as a duplicate of this bug. ***

Provided that the mailer searches for a currently available SMTP server out of
its list, a possible solution for the blacklist issue is to have another field
option for the to/reply-to/cc/bcc fields - a "not through this mail server"
option and an "only through this mail server" option (of which you could add
several, of course).

*** Bug 145873 has been marked as a duplicate of this bug. ***

Hi,
This is labeled 'enhancement' i think its should be increased at least to 'normal'

its been in the sysystem a long time 10 months or so, its very anoying to me
this bug.

perhaps the milestone could be set a little closer to home as well

JG

I totally agree. I've stopped using mozilla altogether because of this bug.

Can someone increase this to normal, basic functionality is clearly not a future
enhancement. perhaps changing the milestone as well? this has been around for
ages now.

Every week I have wasted time, when i have to change my stmp back to the office
server on my laptop.

Is anyone working on a patch already for this?

JG

A simple solution (IMO) would be to allow us to define a separate SMTP server
for each mail account, defaulting to a master SMTP server when none is entered.

Ya think?

I would agree on upgrading this - it's a serious functionality flaw. Every new
account I add tries to use the same original SMTP server I entered but with the
CURRENT account's login information - fails every time. That's BAD.

> ------- Additional Comments From <email address hidden> 2002-05-29 20:59 -------
> A simple solution (IMO) would be to allow us to define a separate SMTP server
> for each mail account, defaulting to a master SMTP server when none is entered.

I think this would be another great feature, defaults for each acount, but also
the checking of all smtp "default" servers in order is good as well.

I'm now inside firewall, when i am on my adsl I want to use that smtp, but all
with the same email address

JG

Can some one consider changing this to normal severity and set a milestone please?

Mozilla already implements comment #14.

Ah, forgot about that advanced button.
Well we are back to just checking all the smtp servers in order then
JG

In response to comment #16, where do you add SMTP servers? And can we associate
them with particular accounts? The "Advanced" button only shows a drop-down of
one server, with no "Add" option. Seems like this would be the logical place
for it - I can't seem to find where this is done. Thanks.

Removed [RFE] and changed sev to minor. You can change back if you disagree...

Dan, I'm emailing you instructions. I do agree it is not exactly obvious how to
do it.

see also bug 158099 (need names for outgoing SMTP servers)

*** Bug 161019 has been marked as a duplicate of this bug. ***

My experience is, that whenever you add a new smtp server, mozilla makes two
entries, first contains the new server information, the second one is empty (you
can´t see it until you click it). It is useless to delete the empty record, you
have to edit it with any data (e.g. a duplicate of an already existing).
Afterwards access to all servers worked - Tested on W2K Pro and debian (xandros
beta 2).

*** Bug 182635 has been marked as a duplicate of this bug. ***

IMO, this is simply a BUG. I have to enter my smtp server every time my laptop
moves. This stinks and is clearly inferior to even the macintosh mailer.
(macintosh has dial up, wireless, wired, and moves frequently.)

Rather than waiting for timeout, I wish there were an smtp mailer associated
with each account, with perhaps a "global default" smtp mailer to use if the
local one is not set. (Akin to the way return receipt preferences are set.)
Global mailer can be used for stationary machines, (my deskside rarely changes
IP location).

BTW, I found this the most confusing aspect of mozilla mail initially. Multiple
accounts are easy to set up for reading, but it takes ages to figure out that
accounts don't have smtp hosts associated with them. You *expect* them to have
smtp accounts associated with them, since smtp accounts are assigned along with
email accounts, only work from certain IP addresses, and sometimes even block
relaying based not only on source address, but based on "from" address. That
is, when working for company A, smtp.A.com will only accept email that claims to
be from rich@A.com. If I attempt to feed them mail "From: rich@B.com", they
refuse it. I need to set a different smtp server for B.com.

Due to "from" filtering, even stationary machines need multiple smtp servers in
many instances.

I kind of agree with this, the main problem being that the SMTP dialogue is
totaly un-intuitive and has been buggy (multiple entries in the past).
Another important addition is to allow access to this dialogue easily when a
smtp problem occurs.
i.e. Sorry could connect to that SMTP server do you want to change your default
for this mail account ?
Sorry your SMTP password diddn't work do you want to change it ? OR NOT USE IT
AT ALL...
Why the heck does it default to using a password ? How many people out their
have a password on an SMTP server ! (which is by definition secured by relay
access control, pop-before-smtp or SSL).

Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.3) Gecko/20030312

My behaviour is:
I created a new SMTP server record and assign it to one of mail account. Now I
have two SMTP servers, default and custom, which one I want to use for several
mail accounts (with different corresponding mail account settings!). When I send
newly created message from these accounts, how can I be sure that desired (but
not default) SMTP server is in use? Mozilla didn't ask me for a password, just
silently sent a message. But when I again use Advanced button to make myself
sure that there is a server I need there, it started to ask me for a password,
but was continiously failing to send it due to "invalid login/password" or
something similar.

I think it's some kind of security issue, for example I wish to be completely
sure that certain e-mails go through _this given_ server only and not through
anyone else. So it's not "minor" level, it should be higher.

Being able to configure default smtp servers for different accounts is necessary
for migrating users - i.e. if their home and work ISPs are different and neither
lets you reach their smtp from "outside" to prevent spam.

However, even if I use an ISP-independent SMTP provider, it would be great to be
able to select which smtp should be used on a per message basis.
Outlook does this well with its drop-down menu at the send button where I can
even after writing the message adjust that at the time of sending.

Is it REALLY this hard? Run Evolution for twenty minutes. Set it up for five
different accounts. See how trivially easy it is to get multiple POP3, IMAP, and
SMTP servers set up.

Mimic the UI in Mozilla Mail. I just wasted ten hours importing all my mail,
typing in all my filters, creating all my accounts, and then find out I can't
send email from 1@A.com via SMTP.A.com and mail from 2@B.com via SMTP.B.com.

Mozilla does allow one to configure a different SMTP server for each account.
In the Mail & Newsgroups account settings, the "Advanced..." tab off of
"Outgoing Server (SMTP)" allows one to define new SMTP servers and the
"Advanced..." tab off of the Identity pane for an account allows one to
associate a defined SMTP server with an account. In the mail compose window,
one can then pick the account/identity from the From: drop-down list and the
mail goes out through the associated SMTP server.

This bug was originally asking for the ability to have an account/identity
associated with multiple SMTP servers, with Mozilla automatically failing over
from one to the other.

*** Bug 209772 has been marked as a duplicate of this bug. ***

FWIW, this has a solution for how I use Mozilla and as far as I'm concerned is a
UI error rather than code error.

I setup 3 SMTP servers for 3 different ISPs, and found that there are more than
one "advanced" button: The "advanced" button on the SMTP server tab doesn't
really do what I want. Instead, I have to click the "advanced" button on the
account and pick which SMTP server that account should mail through.

It would be nice if server definitions were defined on a server dialogue, and
not on a "profile" dialogue.

Yeah, I've found it just today and it works well.
I had to manually edit my prefs.js before :)

i have also the same problem as the author of this bug report
i'm often switching between different locations which use different SMTP servers
(but i can still access my accounts via POP3)

currently, i have to configure 'dummy accounts' like '<email address hidden> via smtp1',
'<email address hidden> via smtp2', ... one of them with 'real pop3' and the rest of them
without real pop3 so i don't get duplicates

and i always have to select the right 'From' address

if there would a possibility of configuring 'group of default smtp servers', or
base this on local ip address, or at least have a support for calling a script
which would return which smtp server to use (hmmm, what about allowing backtips
in smtp server field and making them work in the same way as they work in shell
? ;-);
it would be much much better

i think

My issue is (and the issue of any laptop user who does serious traveling) - I
only have one mail account, but need to use multiple SMTP servers because of
increased security on various dial-up and other ISPs. Very few ISPs will let you
use an SMTP server not theirs.

When I log on via an ISP, their dhcp server automatically assigns me a
connection-specific default domain suffix. The ideal behavior for Mozilla would
then be to detect the connection-specific default domain suffix and send to the
smtp server that matches it. Then I don't have to think about it.

*** Bug 198885 has been marked as a duplicate of this bug. ***

*** Bug 219883 has been marked as a duplicate of this bug. ***

*** Bug 177025 has been marked as a duplicate of this bug. ***

*** Bug 190190 has been marked as a duplicate of this bug. ***

How's this Solution/Workaround (untested):
Assume servers
smtp.homeisp.dom and mail.workisp.dom.
Assume dhcp server automatically assigns correct
connection-specific default domain suffixes.
If smtp server is set to "smtp", and a hosts file entry is created that
maps smtp.workisp.dom to mail.workisp.dom, then everything should just work.
If it does, this should be documented.

Changing Summary, P, as one can define multiple smtp servers and switch between
them with the UI (and if/where the above solution works, do so automatically).

John Coonrod: Hey, it's not good to create a new bug when you know there's an
existing bug for the issue. It seems you created Bug 219883 after commenting here!

Matthew - Hey - it's also not good to falsely accuse contributors. I created the
new bug report before being informed it was a dupe.

Mail/News has a poorly designed SMTP user interface. This type of problem is
normally an enhancement, and would thus be of low priority to developers.

However, the bad design of the SMTP user interface is causing a number of users
to file spurious bugs. It is also resulting in a lot of grief (the magnitude of
which is not recognized, because it is dispersed between a number of different
bugs).

This is a problem with both Mozilla Mail/News and Thunderbird.

It remains a problem even in these, more recent versions:
Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113
Mozilla Thunderbird 0.5 (20040207)

Although no single SMTP bug has that many votes, the sum of votes for those bugs
partially or wholly dependent upon UI problems is rather large.

These bugs aren't really bugs, but are users who are mislead by the UI:
bug 228643
  - Outgoing Server settings ignore the default
bug 170089
- default server value not being used to send mail. Mail cannot be sent.
bug 222064
- don't remember the updated default SMTP server. Can't use more then one SMTP
server

These bugs all mention or are in part due to bad UI design:
bug 202468
  - 3 votes - Simpler, more consolidated UI for SMTP server settings
bug 52384
  - 26 votes - difficult to define multiple smtp servers and
quickly/automatically switch between them
bug 154453
  - 2 votes - SMTP setting dialog totally corrupted
bug 218518 comment 4 and comment 5
 - unable to select alternate SMTP server in Account Settings
bug 226017
- Should try other SMTP servers when default doesn't work

Note that all of these bugs can't simply be marked closed and consolidated into
one bug (most contain more than one issue with the way SMTP servers are entered
& organized).

However, I suggest that the UI aspects of these bugs be consolidated into bug
202468 .

Let's all vote for it, and hopefully get some work done on this UI!
Andy

I don't recall bug voting having had any effect, ever... why bother voting? The
developers fix only what _they_ see as important. A case in point is MNG issue
(bug 18574). If anything, people should be encouraged to take up Mozilla
programming and fix their own 'preferred' bugs, since that's about the only way
things seem to get done around here. Sorry for being such a cynic but that's the
way I see it.

unfortunately, not everybody is capable of modifying mozilla to serve him
better, and not everybody, who could, has also time for it

in addition, learning how to hack mozilla just because of fixing one or two bugs
is such an overhead which a lot of people cannot do because of time

imho, this is not specific to mozilla, it is quite common problem in linux world
.. open source is great, but developer community cannot replace qa

why every looser can use windows ? not because windows is better, but their gui
is more looser friendly ..

i would like to have a kind of voting where i can put a certain amount of money
on a task; and once this task is completed, money are split between developers
who did it

imagine, i complain about smtp interface of mozilla and write a bug/request; and
 assign 3 euro to this problem (i.e. i pay 3 euro somewhere)
this organization in the middle will hold the money for certain amount of time,
let's say 3 months or so (depending on the complexity of the problem) and once
the problem is fixed by someone, and fix is accepted; developers get their
(earned) money
if the amount is low and noone has an interest, i will get my money back in 3
months or so

i don't use open source because it does not cost anything, but because it is free
and i also have no problems to contribute something
since i can't contribute with time because of my job, i can contribute with some
money; at the same time i want that people are working on the problems which i
would like to see solved

noone can really complain that developers are ignoring something; they are doing
what they want

now if 500 people contribute 3 euros each to rewrite smtp user interface; it
could get interesting

*** Bug 226017 has been marked as a duplicate of this bug. ***

*** Bug 243805 has been marked as a duplicate of this bug. ***

As of the latest nightly build (2004-06-15-06), the SMTP server selection is
(again?) partially broken. I select a newsgroup account -> View settings for
this account -> Server settings -> Advanced... -> select an SMTP server -> click
OK -> nothing happens! Would have expected that the dialog closes and saves
settings. For POP mail accounts, the SMTP dialog works as expected.

As we get close to the fourth anniversary of this feature request, I thought it
might be worthwhile to note these trends within the networked world since its
original posting in 2000 ..:

1. Laptop computers are more commonplace in student and office populations.
2. Wireless IP networks are more commonplace pretty much everywhere.
3. To prevent increasingly frequent spam and other abuses, it's now default
behaviour for ISPs to restrict SMTP access to clients within their local subnets.

These trends carry significant implications for the original purpose of the bug,
which was to enable a graceful cascade through a list of specified SMTP servers.
With more people using laptops as their primary computers, and with more people
connecting to the Internet from wherever they happen to be (airport lounges,
coffee shops, school, work, home, etc), and with fewer ISPs willing to allow
non-local traffic access to their SMTP servers and with (sadly) fewer still
enabling user-based authentication for SMTP ... well, you get more people who
are trying to use their primary POP/IMAP email accounts with different SMTP
settings based on location.

As is, Mozilla/Thunderbird's answer to this problem is to either have the user
manually switch between SMTP servers that have been added to the account
options, or switch between account identities. While this is no worse than
Outlook Express, it's not at all a suitable answer, especially for people like
my mom who simply don't understand why her email won't work at a different
location. Her tech support guy (or, more realistically, me) can set up multiple
SMTP servers / account entries, but I can't be around to switch between them for
her.

The proposal -- which seems quite sensible -- is to enable by default a SMTP
cascade for each account. If the first listed SMTP server fails to connect, then
the application should attempt to use the next one on the list, and so on, until
the list is exhausted. As soon as a valid connection is made, that SMTP entry
should be promoted to the top of the list and become the preferred SMTP
connection. An option can be included to "[ ] Only use selected SMTP server" for
people who want to control this behaviour more closely.

This feature seems to be of increasing importance due to the trends listed
above. Any chance of promoting it from P4 so that there's a hope of it being
addressed before Thunderbird 1.0? It's definitely served its time in BugZilla
pergatory for long enough, I think.

(In reply to comment #48)
> As we get close to the fourth anniversary of this feature request, I thought it
> might be worthwhile to note these trends within the networked world since its
> original posting in 2000 ..:

Use Evolution (1.4.4). Supports multiple SMTP accounts seamlessly.

I gave up on waiting for this feature to be added to Mozilla... well, about
three years ago now.

IIRC, a patch was even submitted, and rejected by a developer (on another bug
that was eventually closed as a dup of this one). Why? Not because the patch was
bad. It was clear the submittor spent considerable time making it clear and
well-formed. But because no-one wants the functionality, or it's confusing, or
something equally lame.

Give Evolution to your mom.

--
philovivero

I really need this feature!!!
Also there are other three wrongdoings with Mozilla for Mac OS X
1) the junk mail filter does not work automatically
2) the user defined notification sound is broken as well
3) the smtp does not change according to location.

I have already donated ten dollars to Mozilla Foundation, why these are not
fixed yet!!!

:-)

Completely agree with comment 48.

Workaround for those like me waiting for this to be fixed: pay the one time
subscription to fastmail.fm. So far I have been able to use their authenticated
SMTP in TLS mode from anywhere. They also support ways to get smtp access on
ports not normally blocked by firewalls: I got this to work some of the time.

Alan

(In reply to comment #48)

Also need to consider the case when access to some SMTP server requires a
password. The 'enter your password' UI should have the option to continue down
the list of SMTP servers.

*** Bug 248390 has been marked as a duplicate of this bug. ***

I think that the additon of a SMTP prompt/menu when sending mail is a must have
and it should be added promptly. At this point, I use MozMail on my laptop where
depending on my connection, I have to use one of five SMTP servers. This becomes
a pain in the behind as I have to pretty much erase all mentions of the 4 other
SMTP servers and restart MozMail before I can send Mail from a particular SMTP
server. (I have found that just erasing the SMTP server from the Mail Accounts
Manager doesn't help, it still tries to use the old server. This happens when
you try to delete the server, as well as when you select a new deafult SMTP
server).

Would it not be helpful if MozMail prompted the user regarding which SMTP server
to use when there is more than one listed?

*** Bug 251114 has been marked as a duplicate of this bug. ***

I disagree with calling this bug "minor" - it's a feature that doesn't work (the
"advanced" multiple smtp setting just plain doesn't work and should be removed)
and, for those of us with laptops, it's tremendously annoying to have to
re-enter smtp settings twice a day. I see no reason for dialogs or menus -
just detect the domain name of the internet setting and have that indicate which
smtp server to use. Prompt for settings if you see a new connection domain.

*** Bug 274176 has been marked as a duplicate of this bug. ***

This issues is now over four years old.
Is there a target date for implementation?

I would really want to see a solution to this problem, as I'm constantly
confronted to it with my laptop. Nevertheless, I don't think the idea to try
sending the mail to all servers is really a good idea. If I have a mail with an
attachment of 1 MB, I do not want it to send it uselessly two or three times.

I have seen a better solution in KMail/Kontact: it can show a list of all
configured SMTP-servers in the compose window (just below the To-address), so
you can easily choose your SMTP-server on a per mail setting, or even type in a
complete custom SMTP-server. It also has the possibility to set a default
SMTP-server depending on the From-address you choose, which is very handy (If
I'm writing an e-mail with my work address identity, there's much chance I'm at
work and I have to use my work's SMTP-server).

if the email is to be refused, it is most of the time (if not always) refused
just after MAIL FROM: and RCPT TO: commands, i.e. before your 1Mb attachment is
sent to the server

Change back Severity to "Enhancement" since this is not flaw, is working as
currently designed.
Please note that level of problem(blocker to trival) and enhancement has
different meaning, although same "Severity" field is used.
If the enhancement is very important, priority should be raised by appropriate
persons.

I heavily disagree - as far as I have seen this "feature" at work on Windows,
you had to restart mozilla for the change to take effect. Even if this wouldn't
be required, the necessity to change this manually in preferences is terrible.
For people using more different networks (i.e. with notebooks) this is really
important thing (see comments #56 and #59 for example), not an enhancement.
Unless you call MUA's ability to send mail via SMTP an enhancement, of course.

It is a flaw. The point of a computer program is to automate repetitive human
actions, if possible. If the program forces the human to do the work then it is
a flaw.

Even more so, humans are fallible and may forget to adjust the settings on or
back and get undesired results because of it.

Surely Mozilla could be setup so that human intervention is not required, its
just not possible to define this - hence undesirable flaw.

Let's not get hysterical with semantics here, people. I'm as much in favour of
this feature enhancement as anyone (see comment 48), but right now Thunderbird
is designed to support a single SMTP server per profile, and that works as
designed. Any changes to the design are classified as an "enhancement". Fine. Yay.

Instead of worrying about how Bugzilla classifies a request for additional
function, our efforts should be put towards either a) working on an extension
that implements the feature we're looking for or b) finding someone who wants to
figure out what patches need to be made to the trunk in order to enable it.

*** Bug 167506 has been marked as a duplicate of this bug. ***

*** Bug 403498 has been marked as a duplicate of this bug. ***

I'll add another comment to hopefully finally wake-up some dev around here that wants to fix it.

I really need this because I need to use 2 smtp servers now for my college mail sever as both servers are only available trough the intranet where I am, home or school.

Is it really that hard to implement to leave this 7 years in the tracker?

*** Bug 435391 has been marked as a duplicate of this bug. ***

I just encountered this error after trying to switch to a different (existing) outgoing mail server. No matter what I did, the send mail function would repeatedly attempt to use the same smtp settings for sending a message (even after setting the desired one as default and restarting).

Finally, I had to delete the existing smtp account, leaving just the one I wanted to use.

Therefore, I have to agree that switching between multiple outgoing mail server accounts on TB is not currently possible.

One Bug, 8 years.

I agree, it should be more easy (usability) to set up a a new mail-account.

In creation-dialog of a new account, there should field to ask the user for a smtp-server. At the same page, whrer the user has to enter the pop3/imap-Server.

*** Bug 484135 has been marked as a duplicate of this bug. ***

*** Bug 538055 has been marked as a duplicate of this bug. ***

I must admit, after reading all posts and seeing a number of other bugs marked as duplicates, that it doesn't seem likely to get this resolved anytime soon.

On the other hand, with the recent push for more TB development, and approaching ten year anniversary, it might happen ;-)

We've been using Netscape and then Thunderbird for years in the office and sort of had a workaround for the issue by using NetSwitcher on laptops. That main purpose of NetSwitcher is allowing regular Windows users select from predefined "network loactions" with corresponding IP settings.

One of the settings allows for using "nswsmtp" as an SMTP server in your email app. What NetsWitcher does is put an entry in the host file with the appropriate IP of the current network's SMTP server.

This works kinda of OK in the case where you have specific preconfigured network settings and does not require the user to touch TB's SMTP settings.
However, it does not work if the SMTP server requires authentication, and of course there's no SMTP failover functionality.

Ideally, TB should handle the list of SMTP servers and fail over to the next on the list if the primary does not respond, etc.

I think the SmtpSelect addon should do what you need:
https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/thunderbird/addon/2234/

...Or is there something extra that it misses?

This is not a 'nice to have' it is fundamental! It may be working as intended but the intent is clearly wrong.

If I reply to an email the recipient expects it to come from the address they sent to not some other address. How hard can it be to specify in the account which outgoing smtp to use?

If I had the time and the skills I'd do it myself.

Apologies, Withdrawn. I now found the button. Which has been problematic for me for years but now magically works.

So why all the discussion? Each account can have its own SMTP. Job done.

By the way, the web is full of advice on how to use TB that does not apply to current versions and may be helping to generate issues that aren't really still there. Not sure how to address it but a health warning on the mozilla site might help.

Actually this bug is about switching SMTP on-the-fly: sending over one server failed -> try another one automatically. Such SMTP server pooling is currently not supported, but still desired.

Just going back through some historical entries in my own user activity report. I see I added my address as a cc to this in 2004. :-)

Thanks, Petr, for your comment 77.

We do currently have support for multiple SMTP servers, and we do have the ability to specify which server should be used for which account and/or identity, however the original description of this RFE still remains valid, and suggest changing subject to:

Ability to automatically failover to one or more alternate SMTP servers

I know of no extension which currently provides this functionality.

More specifically:

Assume two incoming accounts:

<email address hidden> (personal email)
<email address hidden> (business email)

Now assume three SMTP servers:

smtp.shmoe.tld
smtp.joes-isp.tld
smtp.company.tld

When Joe sends mail from home, he'll first try his own SMTP server (smtp.shmoe.tld), but if that host is offline, he'd want to define his ISP as a failover (smtp.joes-isp.tld) (assuming SPF records were in place and such, so that mail coming from his ISP would not look like spam to the recipient).

Likewise, when sending work email from home, he might want to first try the Company server (smtp.company.tld), and if that should fail, then fall back to his ISP (smtp.joes-isp.tld), but *never* use his own domain for such outgoing email (smtp.shmoe.tld).

Thus, we would need a mechanism for defining the failover order for each account and/or identity, and not simply allow failover from one server to the next per placement in the list of outgoing servers in prefs.js.

*** Bug 1115070 has been marked as a duplicate of this bug. ***