Change window title from "Software Updater" to...anything else?

Status changed to 'Confirmed' because the bug affects multiple users.

Arthur, I don't see the "debate" you mention anywhere in the article you linked to. Anyway, "software" is a mass noun, so "install it" is correct. If we referred to "software updates" instead, then "them" would be correct. I chose "updated software" instead of "software updates" because that avoids having to change to a different message whenever only one update is available. ("A software update is available. Do you want to install it now?")

(1) Why?

(2) Why? This window is basically equivalent to a confirmation alert, and it's a bit strange to present a confirmation alert without asking a question. Normally that's done only if the preceding sentence is long, and it isn't in this case.

Hi Matthew,

You are correct. I misspoke. The debate (or "spirited discussion" if
you will) was on Google+ and was in reference to the article rather
than in the comments to the article.

Article: http://www.iloveubuntu.net/update-manager-renamed-software-updater-ubuntu-1210

https://plus.google.com/u/0/109365858706205035322/posts/NhRx4AWttZY

https://plus.google.com/u/0/109365858706205035322/posts/J485xYxhY7v

That being said, the name could still be improved. You asked why.

(1) "Update Manager" was fine. But "Software Updater" doesn't sound
natural (to me). Maybe the name was changed to match the "Software Up
to Date" menu entry under the System Menu (the cog wheel). If so, why
don't we just call it "Update Software" (my preference) or "Software
Update" (my second choice) instead of "Software Updater?" The word
"Updater" is too active of a name for what is designed to be an
unobtrusive background process. "Updater" sounds like a program you
run rather than the pop-up it is now. Even if I'm not convincing you,
I hope I'm making some sense. :)

(2) It's just style. We should simplify the pop-up messages to make
them even less obtrusive, quick to read, and easy to deal with. I've
always loved Einstein's quote about making everything as simple as
possible, but not simpler. If we have one sentence that says, "Updated
software is available." then the question about installing now is
implied by the buttons, especially when one of the buttons is labelled
"Install Now." It's redundant to ask if they want to install now and
then have the button.

Admittedly, these items are minor points. And what I think is clear
and simple language can be very different from what someone else
thinks. Like everyone else on this list, I'm just trying to make
Ubuntu better.

Take care,
Arthur

On Wed, Aug 1, 2012 at 1:14 AM, Matthew Paul Thomas <email address hidden> wrote:
> Arthur, I don't see the "debate" you mention anywhere in the article you
> linked to. Anyway, "software" is a mass noun, so "install it" is
> correct. If we referred to "software updates" instead, then "them" would
> be correct. I chose "updated software" instead of "software updates"
> because that avoids having to change to a different message whenever
> only one update is available. ("A software update is available. Do you
> want to install it now?")
>
> (1) Why?
>
> (2) Why? This window is basically equivalent to a confirmation alert,
> and it's a bit strange to present a confirmation alert without asking a
> question. Normally that's done only if the preceding sentence is long,
> and it isn't in this case.
>
> ** Changed in: update-manager (Ubuntu)
> Status: Confirmed => Incomplete
>
> ** Changed in: update-manager (Ubuntu)
> Assignee: (unassigned) => Matthew Paul Thomas (mpt)
>
> --
> You received this bug notification because you are subscribed to the bug
> report.
> https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1009686
>
> Title:
> Change window title from "Software Updater" to...anything else?
>
> Status in “update-manager” package in Ubuntu:
> Incomplete
>
> Bug description:
> In 12.10, "Update Manager" is now being called "Software Updater."
>
> http://iloveubuntu.net/update-manage...

Sorry, in #1 I meant to write "Updated Software" rather than "Update Software."

On Wed, Aug 1, 2012 at 2:49 PM, Arthur Tan <email address hidden> wrote:
> Hi Matthew,
>
> You are correct. I misspoke. The debate (or "spirited discussion" if
> you will) was on Google+ and was in reference to the article rather
> than in the comments to the article.
>
> Article: http://www.iloveubuntu.net/update-manager-renamed-software-updater-ubuntu-1210
>
> https://plus.google.com/u/0/109365858706205035322/posts/NhRx4AWttZY
>
> https://plus.google.com/u/0/109365858706205035322/posts/J485xYxhY7v
>
> That being said, the name could still be improved. You asked why.
>
> (1) "Update Manager" was fine. But "Software Updater" doesn't sound
> natural (to me). Maybe the name was changed to match the "Software Up
> to Date" menu entry under the System Menu (the cog wheel). If so, why
> don't we just call it "Update Software" (my preference) or "Software
> Update" (my second choice) instead of "Software Updater?" The word
> "Updater" is too active of a name for what is designed to be an
> unobtrusive background process. "Updater" sounds like a program you
> run rather than the pop-up it is now. Even if I'm not convincing you,
> I hope I'm making some sense. :)
>
> (2) It's just style. We should simplify the pop-up messages to make
> them even less obtrusive, quick to read, and easy to deal with. I've
> always loved Einstein's quote about making everything as simple as
> possible, but not simpler. If we have one sentence that says, "Updated
> software is available." then the question about installing now is
> implied by the buttons, especially when one of the buttons is labelled
> "Install Now." It's redundant to ask if they want to install now and
> then have the button.
>
> Admittedly, these items are minor points. And what I think is clear
> and simple language can be very different from what someone else
> thinks. Like everyone else on this list, I'm just trying to make
> Ubuntu better.
>
> Take care,
> Arthur
>
> On Wed, Aug 1, 2012 at 1:14 AM, Matthew Paul Thomas <email address hidden> wrote:
>> Arthur, I don't see the "debate" you mention anywhere in the article you
>> linked to. Anyway, "software" is a mass noun, so "install it" is
>> correct. If we referred to "software updates" instead, then "them" would
>> be correct. I chose "updated software" instead of "software updates"
>> because that avoids having to change to a different message whenever
>> only one update is available. ("A software update is available. Do you
>> want to install it now?")
>>
>> (1) Why?
>>
>> (2) Why? This window is basically equivalent to a confirmation alert,
>> and it's a bit strange to present a confirmation alert without asking a
>> question. Normally that's done only if the preceding sentence is long,
>> and it isn't in this case.
>>
>> ** Changed in: update-manager (Ubuntu)
>> Status: Confirmed => Incomplete
>>
>> ** Changed in: update-manager (Ubuntu)
>> Assignee: (unassigned) => Matthew Paul Thomas (mpt)
>>
>> --
>> You received this bug notification because you are subscribed to the bug
>> report.
>> https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1009686
>>
>> Title:
>> Change ...

According to comment #10 in but # 681723, "Software Updater" is a shortened-form of "Software Update Manager". Please consider changing it back to Update Manager.

Status changed to 'Confirmed' because the bug affects multiple users.

Calling a window a "Manager" is almost always a symptom of being indirect. Back in the dark days of Mozilla, pre-Firefox, it had so many Managers -- "Bookmarks Manager", "Certificate Manager", "Cookie Manager", "Form Manager", "Password Manager", "Profile Manager", and so on -- that one of the developers once parodied it by implementing a "Manager Manager" to launch them all. Their modern-day Firefox equivalents are mostly more straightforward: for example "Bookmarks", "Cookies", and "Saved Passwords".

That's the approach I followed here. Calling this window an "Update Manager" makes it sound more complicated than it is. "Software Updater" conveys more meaning in the same number of syllables.

Now, it's possible that there is a reason not to use the word "Updater". Maybe indeed it "doesn't sound
natural" to an important proportion of English speakers, and there's something else that would be better. But if you want to make a case for that, bring data. Don't just link to two Google+ posts, written by the same person, wherein most of the comments are irrelevant. Thanks.

On Thu, Dec 20, 2012 at 8:24 AM, Matthew Paul Thomas <email address hidden> wrote:
> Calling a window a "Manager" is almost always a symptom of being
> indirect. Back in the dark days of Mozilla, pre-Firefox, it had so many
> Managers -- "Bookmarks Manager", "Certificate Manager", "Cookie
> Manager", "Form Manager", "Password Manager", "Profile Manager", and so
> on -- that one of the developers once parodied it by implementing a
> "Manager Manager" to launch them all. Their modern-day Firefox
> equivalents are mostly more straightforward: for example "Bookmarks",
> "Cookies", and "Saved Passwords".

Simplification is good. And to your credit, "updater" is not without
precedent, e.g.

https://ninite.com/updater/
http://www.winzip.com/driver-updater.htm

But if we follow Mozilla's lead, why don't we just call it "Updates" ?

Branching out a little bit...perhaps one day, (I hope), Software
Updater will be merged in Software Center and we won't even need to
think about these things.

Happy holidays!

Arthur, you mention you'd prefer, among others, the name "Software Update". Curiously enough, my translation team (~ubuntu-es-l10n) has chosen precisely that name ("Actualización de software").

Hi Adolfo,

After thinking about what Matthew (MPT) has written, I acknowledge that there are valid differences of opinion about what update manager or software updater should be called. I agree with MPT that no matter what it's called, the name should be clear, simple, and direct. For now, I've changed the bug's status back to Opinion.

I also think that if software updater was merged into Ubuntu Software Center, it would simply things even further. Consider Google's Play Store. One program - the Play Store - shows the user what software is available, what is installed, and what can be updated. Perhaps USC can do something similar by the next LTS.

Happy new year.

If anyone would like to add an Updates section to Ubuntu Software Center, here's the design spec: <https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SoftwareCenter#updates> But that wouldn't replace Software Updater, for reasons described in <https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SoftwareUpdates#approaches>.